Idiots with hoses?

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01/07/2010 11:37 AM
JamesA Location: Peterborough Joined on: 24 Aug 2006 Posts: 215	Reply \| Contact Our neighbours drench their plants and trees with a hose every night, often even when it's rained heavily the day before. My own personal feeling is that we should have a permanent hosepipe ban. I also feel that water should be directed to the roots, possibly with some sort of mound/trough or tube for large plants/trees. Can anyone confirm the science for hot weather periods? The misting of leaves will reduce transpiration for a short period. However, I think you're fighting a losing battle in the open air. Maybe misting a greenhouse or cold frame would make more sense, although I still have my doubts... Un-misted plants will transpire more and draw up more water. Watering the soil instead will allow for this, and in my opinion is the best way to go. In terms of water efficiency, I believe watering the soil with a watering can is the only way to go. Trying to water the soil with a hose is not really practical.

01/07/2010 11:37 AM

JamesA
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Our neighbours drench their plants and trees with a hose every night, often even when it's rained heavily the day before.

My own personal feeling is that we should have a permanent hosepipe ban.
I also feel that water should be directed to the roots, possibly with some sort of mound/trough or tube for large plants/trees.

Can anyone confirm the science for hot weather periods?
The misting of leaves will reduce transpiration for a short period.
However, I think you're fighting a losing battle in the open air.
Maybe misting a greenhouse or cold frame would make more sense, although I still have my doubts...

Un-misted plants will transpire more and draw up more water.
Watering the soil instead will allow for this, and in my opinion is the best way to go.

In terms of water efficiency, I believe watering the soil with a watering can is the only way to go.
Trying to water the soil with a hose is not really practical.

01/07/2010 11:55 AM	In reply to
Linnea Location: Joined on: 13 Jan 2007 Posts: 53	Reply \| Contact Quote[ My own personal feeling is that we should have a permanent hosepipe ban.] I completely disagree that there should be a permanent hosepipe ban. Speaking from the point of view of an allotment holder. I wouldn't be without my hose. as it is it takes me over an hour every other night to ensure the plants (inc fruit trees) I grow do not dry out in the very fine sandy soil on my site. even mulching has not helped drastically. having had to use watering cans last year I can at least double that time to ensure the same amount of water gets to each plant. As a working person I just don't have that time. From home gardener perspective I would not normally water except in periods of very dry weather ( like we have at the moment down south anyway!) and then only plants that have been newly planted. For example we moved into our home in June last year and spent the winter re-deisgning and digging over the garden. everything (there was only 2 plants in the garden when we moved in) was planted in early spring. We are watering every other night at the moment as we can't afford (money) to lose the number of plants we have put in. We are mostly just watering the plants and where there is nothing planted we're not watering. we've also put mulch down to slow the evaporation process, only water in the evenings etc but it still takes a good 2 hours. again you can probably double this if using watering cans. You can water efficiently with a hose if you have the correct nozzle.

01/07/2010 11:55 AM

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Linnea
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Quote[ My own personal feeling is that we should have a permanent hosepipe ban.]

I completely disagree that there should be a permanent hosepipe ban.

Speaking from the point of view of an allotment holder. I wouldn't be without my hose. as it is it takes me over an hour every other night to ensure the plants (inc fruit trees) I grow do not dry out in the very fine sandy soil on my site. even mulching has not helped drastically. having had to use watering cans last year I can at least double that time to ensure the same amount of water gets to each plant. As a working person I just don't have that time.

From home gardener perspective I would not normally water except in periods of very dry weather ( like we have at the moment down south anyway!) and then only plants that have been newly planted. For example we moved into our home in June last year and spent the winter re-deisgning and digging over the garden. everything (there was only 2 plants in the garden when we moved in) was planted in early spring. We are watering every other night at the moment as we can't afford (money) to lose the number of plants we have put in. We are mostly just watering the plants and where there is nothing planted we're not watering. we've also put mulch down to slow the evaporation process, only water in the evenings etc but it still takes a good 2 hours. again you can probably double this if using watering cans.

You can water efficiently with a hose if you have the correct nozzle.

01/07/2010 12:33 PM	In reply to
Valerian Location: South Essex Joined on: 20 Jun 2010 Posts: 483	Reply \| Contact Hello Linnea and James, I agree with Linnea that we should not have a hosepipe ban. What I believe we should do is think differently about how we use hose pipes and the type of hose that we use. I had realised that as I got older I would have problems working in the garden, so I have over the years, changed the way that my father and I watered his garden. Large shrubs and patio pots were planted with plastic bottles beside and slightly beneath them to aid watering and feeding. I laid seep hose all over the garden, front and back, which were then covered with porous weed suppressing membrane and covered with cocoa shell mulch. Not as expensive an outlay as it seems since it was done over several years, but I am really reaping the benefits now. Plants in the garden are watered with grey water from my water butts. This is pumped by a 240v submersible electric pump. There is very little evaporation but I water last thing at night any way. The only time I use a watering can is when I am feeding plants, or watering hanging baskets. Even in my present situation I can attach a lance to the hose and water the baskets one handed. I admit this may not be the solution to everyone’s problems but; “In terms of water efficiency, I believe watering the soil with a watering can is the only way to go. Trying to water the soil with a hose is not really practical.” I think not.Valerie

01/07/2010 12:33 PM

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Valerian
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Hello Linnea and James, I agree with Linnea that we should not have a hosepipe ban. What I believe we should do is think differently about how we use hose pipes and the type of hose that we use. I had realised that as I got older I would have problems working in the garden, so I have over the years, changed the way that my father and I watered his garden. Large shrubs and patio pots were planted with plastic bottles beside and slightly beneath them to aid watering and feeding. I laid seep hose all over the garden, front and back, which were then covered with porous weed suppressing membrane and covered with cocoa shell mulch. Not as expensive an outlay as it seems since it was done over several years, but I am really reaping the benefits now. Plants in the garden are watered with grey water from my water butts. This is pumped by a 240v submersible electric pump. There is very little evaporation but I water last thing at night any way. The only time I use a watering can is when I am feeding plants, or watering hanging baskets. Even in my present situation I can attach a lance to the hose and water the baskets one handed. I admit this may not be the solution to everyone’s problems but; “In terms of water efficiency, I believe watering the soil with a watering can is the only way to go. Trying to water the soil with a hose is not really practical.” I think not.Valerie

01/07/2010 12:37 PM	In reply to
Valerian Location: South Essex Joined on: 20 Jun 2010 Posts: 483	Reply \| Contact I'm sorry James, I've read my post and it sounds like a lecture, I do apologise. What your neighbours are doing does not sound good.

01/07/2010 12:37 PM

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Valerian
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I'm sorry James,

I've read my post and it sounds like a lecture, I do apologise. Sad What your neighbours are doing does not sound good.

01/07/2010 12:39 PM	In reply to
MC Location: UK Joined on: 19 Sep 2008 Posts: 263	Reply \| Contact I agree with the points made above that a hose certainly has its place amongst other methods for different types of watering. It sounds like your neighbours, James, may not be aware of the other methods!

01/07/2010 12:39 PM

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MC
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I agree with the points made above that a hose certainly has its place amongst other methods for different types of watering. It sounds like your neighbours, James, may not be aware of the other methods!

01/07/2010 12:49 PM	In reply to
bogweevil Location: Joined on: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 2,766	Reply \| Contact Watering is to replenish the soil and good watering will wet the root zone to the depth of rooting. Plants then have sufficient water to keep going for about 14 days. Having said that watering trees and shrubs is particularly futile as permanent woody plants have oodles of root and can generally sweat out the driest summer with no watering. We allotment holders without hoses have to use cans so every drop must count. To this end I wet plants in rotation every 14 days making sure each watering soaks the root zone which can mean as much as four watering cans per square metre. To help the drink soak in I 'pond' around the crops. I do water in the rain because summer rain is usually insufficient to top up soil moisture and because no one else is using the allotment water tanks! When the sun comes out again the tanks are crowded but I can smugly just watch my crops grow. Of course this is in the south-east and gardeners in wetter regions will have much less trouble. Boggy Beware the bat-eared bogweevil

01/07/2010 12:49 PM

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bogweevil
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Watering is to replenish the soil and good watering will wet the root zone to the depth of rooting. Plants then have sufficient water to keep going for about 14 days. Having said that watering trees and shrubs is particularly futile as permanent woody plants have oodles of root and can generally sweat out the driest summer with no watering.

We allotment holders without hoses have to use cans so every drop must count. To this end I wet plants in rotation every 14 days making sure each watering soaks the root zone which can mean as much as four watering cans per square metre. To help the drink soak in I 'pond' around the crops.

I do water in the rain because summer rain is usually insufficient to top up soil moisture and because no one else is using the allotment water tanks! When the sun comes out again the tanks are crowded but I can smugly just watch my crops grow.

Of course this is in the south-east and gardeners in wetter regions will have much less trouble.

Boggy

Beware the bat-eared bogweevil

01/07/2010 01:23 PM	In reply to
The Hedge Folk Location: Somerset Joined on: 22 Jan 2010 Posts: 663	Reply \| Contact Sitting in dripping garden - Summer's great pleasure. Who would be an idiot? www.ashridgetrees.co.uk

01/07/2010 01:23 PM

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The Hedge Folk
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Sitting in dripping garden -

Summer's great pleasure.

Who would be an idiot?

www.ashridgetrees.co.uk

01/07/2010 02:37 PM	In reply to
Susiq Location: Northumberland Joined on: 16 Feb 2008 Posts: 3,125	Reply \| Contact Sorry JamesA, I feel you are being a bit narrow minded, in insisting that there should be a total hosepipe ban. For me, we should be looking to the water companies to get their acts together and stop wasting so much water at source and leaking, ancient and erroded pipe systems - charging extortionate prices to boot! We are afterall an island surrounded by water, other islands in very hot places manage with desalination systems etc., but there shouldn't be the need for that at all in this country - good grief, look at the floods not so long ago!?!?!?

01/07/2010 02:37 PM

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Susiq
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Sorry JamesA, I feel you are being a bit narrow minded, in insisting that there should be a total hosepipe ban. For me, we should be looking to the water companies to get their acts together and stop wasting so much water at source and leaking, ancient and erroded pipe systems - charging extortionate prices to boot! We are afterall an island surrounded by water, other islands in very hot places manage with desalination systems etc., but there shouldn't be the need for that at all in this country - good grief, look at the floods not so long ago!?!?!?

01/07/2010 03:31 PM	In reply to
JamesA Location: Peterborough Joined on: 24 Aug 2006 Posts: 215	Reply \| Contact Hosepipe bans are there to ban "unnecessary water use during water shortages". I think with the rising population and pressures on the system there is always pressure. Why would we ever want to allow "unnecessary water use". It's bizarre. I wanted to check that there was no scientific justification for hosing that I had missed. I think allotments could be exempt, but would say councils should do more to provide rainwater harvesting at their sites rather than a tap. Thanks for mentioning watering systems, I forget to mention them. Frankly, the majority of people out there do seem to be idiots when it comes to this sort of thing. Sensible people do end up suffering (you could say the same about speed limits on the roads). In the medium/long term people need to be paying for the water and damage they're doing. Water meters should be compulsory. Although I wasn't serious about wanting a permanent hosepipe ban, this is actually starting to make sense to me until the meters are fitted. I'd like to see all utilities priced in an exponential curve. This would allow all very efficient households to have the basic needs cheap. It'd punish the wasters more and more the more they wasted. However much people complain about the economy, the phrase "more money than sense" seems to apply to nearly everyone these days. It riles me that I'm expected to pay my way and think about the environment while others (like my neighbours) p*** the water, electricity and gas away.

01/07/2010 03:31 PM

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JamesA
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Hosepipe bans are there to ban "unnecessary water use during water shortages".

I think with the rising population and pressures on the system there is always pressure.
Why would we ever want to allow "unnecessary water use". It's bizarre.

I wanted to check that there was no scientific justification for hosing that I had missed.

I think allotments could be exempt, but would say councils should do more to provide rainwater harvesting at their sites rather than a tap.

Thanks for mentioning watering systems, I forget to mention them.

Frankly, the majority of people out there do seem to be idiots when it comes to this sort of thing.
Sensible people do end up suffering (you could say the same about speed limits on the roads).

In the medium/long term people need to be paying for the water and damage they're doing.
Water meters should be compulsory.
Although I wasn't serious about wanting a permanent hosepipe ban, this is actually starting to make sense to me until the meters are fitted.

I'd like to see all utilities priced in an exponential curve.
This would allow all very efficient households to have the basic needs cheap.
It'd punish the wasters more and more the more they wasted.

However much people complain about the economy, the phrase "more money than sense" seems to apply to nearly everyone these days.
It riles me that I'm expected to pay my way and think about the environment while others (like my neighbours) p*** the water, electricity and gas away.

01/07/2010 04:25 PM	In reply to
bogweevil Location: Joined on: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 2,766	Reply \| Contact Only about three percent of average annual domestic water use is outdoors and this includes other uses besides gardening so hosepipe bans make negligable difference to annual water use. Their real purpose is to raise awareness amongst consumers of the need to conserve water and also prove to the Environment Agency that a water company is taking steps to control demand (although a hosepipe ban might reduce the stress on the water supply system at peak demand which is usually at 7pm after two weeks of dry summer weather). http://www.waterwise.org.uk/images/site/Research/garden%20watering%20restrictions%2C%20waterwise%20for%20defra%2C%20nov%2006.pdf Boggy Beware the bat-eared bogweevil

01/07/2010 04:25 PM

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bogweevil
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Only about three percent of average annual domestic water use is outdoors and this includes other uses besides gardening so hosepipe bans make negligable difference to annual water use. Their real purpose is to raise awareness amongst consumers of the need to conserve water and also prove to the Environment Agency that a water company is taking steps to control demand (although a hosepipe ban might reduce the stress on the water supply system at peak demand which is usually at 7pm after two weeks of dry summer weather).

http://www.waterwise.org.uk/images/site/Research/garden%20watering%20restrictions%2C%20waterwise%20for%20defra%2C%20nov%2006.pdf

Boggy

Beware the bat-eared bogweevil

01/07/2010 06:32 PM	In reply to
lillyrose Location: kent Joined on: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 2,973	Reply \| Contact I resent the house down my road that has a full size swimming pool that they keep topped up all year round, the companies who employ people to wash their company cars every day, the councils who cant seem to fix a water leak that is pumping out thousands of gallons of water every day, not the people who water their plants and who pay for that water

01/07/2010 06:32 PM

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lillyrose
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I resent the house down my road that has a full size swimming pool that they keep topped up all year round, the companies who employ people to wash their company cars every day, the councils who cant seem to fix a water leak that is pumping out thousands of gallons of water every day, not the people who water their plants and who pay for that water

01/07/2010 08:06 PM	In reply to
geoff51 Location: Totton, Hampshire Joined on: 13 Feb 2009 Posts: 187	Reply \| Contact The amount the water companies charge for the supply I personnally have no problems in using as much as I require. if they wish to ban hosepipes then they should refund the charges for that period and maybe spend a little more money in upgrading the Victorian infrastructure that they have been making massive profits on for 100 years Geoff51 Pond life!?!

01/07/2010 08:06 PM

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geoff51
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The amount the water companies charge for the supply I personnally have no problems in using as much as I require.

if they wish to ban hosepipes then they should refund the charges for that period and maybe spend a little more money in upgrading the Victorian infrastructure that they have been making massive profits on for 100 years Angry

Geoff51 Pond life!?!

26/07/2010 09:22 PM	In reply to
Digger Location: Northern UK Joined on: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 5,230	Reply \| Contact I agree geoff51 the water companies are bandits, we are currently enjoying a hosepipe ban up in the rainy pennines! this makes it difficult for me to water plants due to my disability but the water company doesn't care, as long as i keep paying their extortionate fees! we can still use the hoepipes for our livestock though. why on earth should people be forced to have a water meter if they don't want one? if the water companies were that bothered they would not have allowed four local reervoirs to be drained off hereabouts and the land built on!!! digger Sage of the fells

26/07/2010 09:22 PM

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Digger
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I agree geoff51 the water companies are bandits, we are currently enjoying a hosepipe ban up in the rainy pennines! this makes it difficult for me to water plants due to my disability but the water company doesn't care, as long as i keep paying their extortionate fees! we can still use the hoepipes for our livestock though. why on earth should people be forced to have a water meter if they don't want one? if the water companies were that bothered they would not have allowed four local reervoirs to be drained off hereabouts and the land built on!!!

digger

Sage of the fells

27/07/2010 10:48 AM	In reply to
JamesA Location: Peterborough Joined on: 24 Aug 2006 Posts: 215	Reply \| Contact All the utility companies should have been more controlled, it still doesn't make it right. Here in the Fens we'd pretty much be under water if it wasn't for engineering and pumping. Some people here expect free water for that reason. It doesn't change the fact that the more water is wasted the more engineering, cost, energy and carbon emissions are needed. People on boards like this are making the effort to find things out, but the general public can't be bothered and you're not going to change things with "education" which is always the solution put forward by namby pamby government do-gooders. Digger: ...why on earth should people be forced to have a water meter if they don't want one?... People who say that wouldn't say that if we were talking about gas and electricity and there's no difference. I'd be equally upset if my neighbours were using as much gas/electricity as possible because they had no meter. This pretty much happens in lots of offices and residential homes where your gas/electricity is included in the rent. People waste to "get their money's worth". The cost of providing all the extra infrastructure, power stations etc for the growing population will be massive and we'll really see high fees when that starts. It's so stupid to do this when we can be more efficient. This won't happen if people aren't metered and charged for what they're using. Maybe this thread needs renaming to "idiots with houses?"

27/07/2010 10:48 AM

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JamesA
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All the utility companies should have been more controlled, it still doesn't make it right.

Here in the Fens we'd pretty much be under water if it wasn't for engineering and pumping.
Some people here expect free water for that reason.
It doesn't change the fact that the more water is wasted the more engineering, cost, energy and carbon emissions are needed.

People on boards like this are making the effort to find things out, but the general public can't be bothered and you're not going to change things with "education" which is always the solution put forward by namby pamby government do-gooders.

Digger:
...why on earth should people be forced to have a water meter if they don't want one?...

People who say that wouldn't say that if we were talking about gas and electricity and there's no difference.
I'd be equally upset if my neighbours were using as much gas/electricity as possible because they had no meter.

This pretty much happens in lots of offices and residential homes where your gas/electricity is included in the rent.
People waste to "get their money's worth".

The cost of providing all the extra infrastructure, power stations etc for the growing population will be massive and we'll really see high fees when that starts.
It's so stupid to do this when we can be more efficient.
This won't happen if people aren't metered and charged for what they're using.

Maybe this thread needs renaming to "idiots with houses?" Smile

27/07/2010 11:15 AM	In reply to
Digger Location: Northern UK Joined on: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 5,230	Reply \| Contact Hi James A, Hmmmmmn lots of the farms here have their own bore holes so they aren't affected by the water board, we've had a leak in the water pipe for some years now, but because it runs straight into the drains the water board aren't keen to fix it? I think the water companies have the cheek of the devil to presume they can tell people how to conduct themselves when using the water that they've bought and paid for, whilst at the same time they waste millions of gallons of the water we've bought and paid for before it even gets to us, We have tons of water catchment areas up here in the sticks but with the total lack of maintenence and the the water company refusing to collect more water to meet the new demand, they are proving that they are full of sh1t which is why no one with half an ounce of intelligence can take seriousley anything the water company says!, firstly they are hippocrites, they take millions of pounds of money from customers "up front" before the water is supplied and then they restrict the supply? although we've already paid for it, the water company makes millions just by collected money for services before they provide them, I ask you. would you go to a supermarket and drop them off a hundred quid,on the assumption that you might need something from them next week? I think our water company has ex laboratory chimps working for them like mojo jojo which is why they don't make any sense at all, my pet mouse walter could make a better job of running the water company, he only ever drinks water when he needs it., and he doesn't piss in the water supply because he knows he'll be drinking it later. good logic from a small egyptian rodent! digger Sage of the fells

27/07/2010 11:15 AM

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Digger
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Hi James A, Hmmmmmn lots of the farms here have their own bore holes so they aren't affected by the water board, we've had a leak in the water pipe for some years now, but because it runs straight into the drains the water board aren't keen to fix it? I think the water companies have the cheek of the devil to presume they can tell people how to conduct themselves when using the water that they've bought and paid for, whilst at the same time they waste millions of gallons of the water we've bought and paid for before it even gets to us, We have tons of water catchment areas up here in the sticks but with the total lack of maintenence and the the water company refusing to collect more water to meet the new demand, they are proving that they are full of sh1t which is why no one with half an ounce of intelligence can take seriousley anything the water company says!, firstly they are hippocrites, they take millions of pounds of money from customers "up front" before the water is supplied and then they restrict the supply? although we've already paid for it, the water company makes millions just by collected money for services before they provide them, I ask you. would you go to a supermarket and drop them off a hundred quid,on the assumption that you might need something from them next week? I think our water company has ex laboratory chimps working for them like mojo jojo which is why they don't make any sense at all, my pet mouse walter could make a better job of running the water company, he only ever drinks water when he needs it., and he doesn't piss in the water supply because he knows he'll be drinking it later. good logic from a small egyptian rodent!

digger

Sage of the fells

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