Prolific slate problem

Last post 14-01-2009 9:07 PM by Shane Powell. 10 replies.

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10/01/2009 09:31 PM
Shane Powell Location: South Devon Joined on: 10 Jan 2009 Posts: 13	Reply \| Contact Hello all, I'm a bit of a newbie here, but after sucessfully using a small strip of my garden to grow some potatoes,carrots and leeks last season I feel qualified enough to call myself a sub-amatuer gardener, albeit I just dug some earth and planted the seeds without really exploring, I am this year however, going to be more committed. So, today I thought I would explore my soil structure and think that I have encountered a problem. I tested my soil ph and it turns out it's neutral,the drainage was good to fair and the soil structure is mainly clay / loam until I get approx 1ft or a spit deep, when there is a very wide seam of slate or shale running through my garden which I feel would be / too costly in temrs of time and money to remove and near on impossible to excavate. Would a raised bed be my only option here? Thanks in advance Given the gift of growing your own is a reward far greater than buying veg from a supermarket, don't you think?

10/01/2009 09:31 PM

Shane Powell
Location:
South Devon
Joined on:
10 Jan 2009
Posts:
13

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Hello all,

I'm a bit of a newbie here, but after sucessfully using a small strip of my garden to grow some potatoes,carrots and leeks last season I feel qualified enough to call myself a sub-amatuer gardener, albeit I just dug some earth and planted the seeds without really exploring, I am this year however, going to be more committed.

So, today I thought I would explore my soil structure and think that I have encountered a problem.

I tested my soil ph and it turns out it's neutral,the drainage was good to fair and the soil structure is mainly clay / loam until I get approx 1ft or a spit deep, when there is a very wide seam of slate or shale running through my garden which I feel would be / too costly in temrs of time and money to remove and near on impossible to excavate.

Would a raised bed be my only option here?

Thanks in advance

Given the gift of growing your own is a reward far greater than buying veg from a supermarket, don't you think?

10/01/2009 10:06 PM	In reply to
Digger Location: Northern UK Joined on: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 4,743	Reply \| Contact A raised bed would be a good idea, and add lots and lots of organic matter that helps to improve the soil, get loads of muck into the ground digger

10/01/2009 10:06 PM

In reply to

Digger
Location:
Northern UK
Joined on:
18 Jul 2005
Posts:
4,743

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A raised bed would be a good idea, and add lots and lots of organic matter that helps to improve the soil, get loads of muck into the ground

digger

10/01/2009 10:23 PM	In reply to
Shane Powell Location: South Devon Joined on: 10 Jan 2009 Posts: 13	Reply \| Contact Thanks Digger, I was thinking of maybe putting 100% multi purpose compost from B&Q into the raised area,would this be sufficient enough to grow veg do you think? As mad as it sounds (Living in Devon) Hopefully when the farms open up again I will get some manure to mulch and mix in. Thanks in advance Given the gift of growing your own is a reward far greater than buying veg from a supermarket, don't you think?

10/01/2009 10:23 PM

In reply to

Shane Powell
Location:
South Devon
Joined on:
10 Jan 2009
Posts:
13

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Thanks Digger,

I was thinking of maybe putting 100% multi purpose compost from B&Q into the raised area,would this be sufficient enough to grow veg do you think?

As mad as it sounds (Living in Devon) Hopefully when the farms open up again I will get some manure to mulch and mix in.

Thanks in advance

Given the gift of growing your own is a reward far greater than buying veg from a supermarket, don't you think?

11/01/2009 10:15 AM	In reply to
Digger Location: Northern UK Joined on: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 4,743	Reply \| Contact Hi shane252, A multi purpose compost should be fine if you can get some manure or organic matter to mix in with it, a word of warning, on this forum there has been much "heated" discussion about farmyard manure and a product called aminopyralid, some farmers have inadvertantly used a weedkiller on thier land, which has passed through the digestive sytems of their animals and resides in the manure, still at a level high enough to kill plants. The upshot is that it is wise to make sure that any manure you obtain is free of the weedkiller aminopyralid, ask the farmer if it is free of contaminants, if you suspect even a hint of a dodgy answer don't get the manure, you can buy organic matter from some garden centres etc.. home made compost is a good improver etc.., if you did just use multi purpose compost on top of your soil I think it would soon wash away with the rain, but if you can get some good compost or manure that would greatly improve things, it's a shame that you live so far away from me as I currently have around ten tonnes of pure horse manure and straw waiting to be used! good luck my friend and do let us all know what you are growing and how well it does. digger

11/01/2009 10:15 AM

In reply to

Digger
Location:
Northern UK
Joined on:
18 Jul 2005
Posts:
4,743

Reply | Contact

Hi shane252, A multi purpose compost should be fine if you can get some manure or organic matter to mix in with it, a word of warning, on this forum there has been much "heated" discussion about farmyard manure and a product called aminopyralid, some farmers have inadvertantly used a weedkiller on thier land, which has passed through the digestive sytems of their animals and resides in the manure, still at a level high enough to kill plants. The upshot is that it is wise to make sure that any manure you obtain is free of the weedkiller aminopyralid, ask the farmer if it is free of contaminants, if you suspect even a hint of a dodgy answer don't get the manure, you can buy organic matter from some garden centres etc.. home made compost is a good improver etc.., if you did just use multi purpose compost on top of your soil I think it would soon wash away with the rain, but if you can get some good compost or manure that would greatly improve things, it's a shame that you live so far away from me as I currently have around ten tonnes of pure horse manure and straw waiting to be used! good luck my friend and do let us all know what you are growing and how well it does. Yes

digger

11/01/2009 09:30 PM	In reply to
Shane Powell Location: South Devon Joined on: 10 Jan 2009 Posts: 13	Reply \| Contact Thanks for your advice digger, I will keep you posted. Given the gift of growing your own is a reward far greater than buying veg from a supermarket, don't you think?

11/01/2009 09:30 PM

In reply to

Shane Powell
Location:
South Devon
Joined on:
10 Jan 2009
Posts:
13

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Thanks for your advice digger, I will keep you posted.

Given the gift of growing your own is a reward far greater than buying veg from a supermarket, don't you think?

11/01/2009 09:48 PM	In reply to
Phot's-Moll Location: The sunny South coast. Joined on: 06 Jan 2007 Posts: 3,347	Reply \| Contact I'm trying to picture the problem ... How much of the garden is affected? If you've grown potatoes successfully then you have enough depth of soil in that area not to need raised beds. If there's only a small area where there's slate close to the surface then maybe you could use that for plants that don't have deep roots? You might want raised beds anyway, as they do have benefits, but as you live in a warm area and have good drainage then you wouldn't need them except for the slate. Perhaps just have them in the worst area? Filling the beds needs much more soil or compost than yoyu'd expect and if you're buying it in will be expensive. I suggest you start with one small bed and see how it goes unless you can get hold of lots of suitable material at a reasonable cost. Whether you think you can do a thing, or think you cannot, you are right.

11/01/2009 09:48 PM

In reply to

Phot's-Moll
Location:
The sunny South coast.
Joined on:
06 Jan 2007
Posts:
3,347

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I'm trying to picture the problem ... How much of the garden is affected?

If you've grown potatoes successfully then you have enough depth of soil in that area not to need raised beds. If there's only a small area where there's slate close to the surface then maybe you could use that for plants that don't have deep roots?

You might want raised beds anyway, as they do have benefits, but as you live in a warm area and have good drainage then you wouldn't need them except for the slate. Perhaps just have them in the worst area?

Filling the beds needs much more soil or compost than yoyu'd expect and if you're buying it in will be expensive. I suggest you start with one small bed and see how it goes unless you can get hold of lots of suitable material at a reasonable cost.

Whether you think you can do a thing, or think you cannot, you are right.

12/01/2009 03:36 PM	In reply to
bogweevil Location: Joined on: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 2,043	Reply \| Contact Sounds like a classic case of when a raised bed is needed. You can grow veg on 30cm of soil but if you can get 50cm, so very much the better. I am not very keen on the multipurpose compost idea. Potting compost is made for, well, pots and is a short term rooting medium. I think it best if you can get some good topsoil. Excavating your paths round the raised beds should provide sufficient when mixed with 10 percent by volume of manure. Fill the paths with bark, gravel or hoggin. Boggy Beware the bat-eared bogweevil

12/01/2009 03:36 PM

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bogweevil
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Sounds like a classic case of when a raised bed is needed. You can grow veg on 30cm of soil but if you can get 50cm, so very much the better.

I am not very keen on the multipurpose compost idea. Potting compost is made for, well, pots and is a short term rooting medium. I think it best if you can get some good topsoil. Excavating your paths round the raised beds should provide sufficient when mixed with 10 percent by volume of manure. Fill the paths with bark, gravel or hoggin.

Boggy

Beware the bat-eared bogweevil

12/01/2009 07:42 PM	In reply to
Shane Powell Location: South Devon Joined on: 10 Jan 2009 Posts: 13	Reply \| Contact Well, the problem looks like it cuts straight through my garden where I plan to grow. My available space is approx 15x20ft and the slate runs at about 50cm deep straight through the area, I've looked at a raised bed, but think im wasting my time,my house isn't readily accesable as I only have access via footpath, so vast amounts of dung could be an issue for me. Such a shame really, as I live about a mile from the old Seale Hayne agricultural college, which closed a few years ago, they used to give manure away free. Anyway, I have also thought about putting the path over the area whcih seems to be affected. My neighbour told me that it took 12 years to clear all of the shale from his plot! I've still got a little time to do a deeper survey before the season starts anyway. Thanks all, Given the gift of growing your own is a reward far greater than buying veg from a supermarket, don't you think?

12/01/2009 07:42 PM

In reply to

Shane Powell
Location:
South Devon
Joined on:
10 Jan 2009
Posts:
13

Reply | Contact

Well, the problem looks like it cuts straight through my garden where I plan to grow.

My available space is approx 15x20ft and the slate runs at about 50cm deep straight through the area, I've looked at a raised bed, but think im wasting my time,my house isn't readily accesable as I only have access via footpath, so vast amounts of dung could be an issue for me.

Such a shame really, as I live about a mile from the old Seale Hayne agricultural college, which closed a few years ago, they used to give manure away free.

Anyway, I have also thought about putting the path over the area whcih seems to be affected.

My neighbour told me that it took 12 years to clear all of the shale from his plot!

I've still got a little time to do a deeper survey before the season starts anyway.

Thanks all,

Given the gift of growing your own is a reward far greater than buying veg from a supermarket, don't you think?

12/01/2009 08:46 PM	In reply to
Digger Location: Northern UK Joined on: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 4,743	Reply \| Contact You could always get a soil samle analysed by the RHS, it's only £20 for members and well worthwhile especially if you are planning to grow vegetables, this could really help you to know what your soil is like before you embark on parting with serious cash. digger

12/01/2009 08:46 PM

In reply to

Digger
Location:
Northern UK
Joined on:
18 Jul 2005
Posts:
4,743

Reply | Contact

You could always get a soil samle analysed by the RHS, it's only £20 for members and well worthwhile especially if you are planning to grow vegetables, this could really help you to know what your soil is like before you embark on parting with serious cash.

digger

13/01/2009 08:06 AM	In reply to
bogweevil Location: Joined on: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 2,043	Reply \| Contact If the shale is at a depth of 50cm you have sufficient soil to grow veg - if at 30cm mildly tricky and if at 15cm, you will need a raised bed. You can rely on compost and fertiliser if you can get no manure. It is not that difficult really. Boggy Beware the bat-eared bogweevil

14/01/2009 09:07 PM	In reply to
Shane Powell Location: South Devon Joined on: 10 Jan 2009 Posts: 13	Reply \| Contact Right then, an update. Please don't have a go at me, I know that it isn't advisable to dig during the colder months, but we have had really mild weather here in Devon today and my plots have been covered with carpet, so I was a bit naughty. I excavated the problem slate as deep as I dared, which was about 35cm, I then levelled the whole trench to a uniform 35cm depth which I filled with compost,grass cuttings and food waste, I then used the slate out of the trench for my in between paths,Result. Why pay for perfectly good slate, when I have a more than an ample supply right in my back garden! After work I went to the local woods and grabbed a couple of bin bags worth of leaf litter, which I mixed with some compost and a little sharp sand, then I used it as a mulch for one of my plots, which I will now leave (Excuse the pun) until March. I'm a chef by trade so I have been using all of the nutritional food trimmings and I'm also saving seeds of Melons, Peppers and Tomatoes. Given the gift of growing your own is a reward far greater than buying veg from a supermarket, don't you think?

14/01/2009 09:07 PM

In reply to

Shane Powell
Location:
South Devon
Joined on:
10 Jan 2009
Posts:
13

Reply | Contact

Right then, an update.

Please don't have a go at me, I know that it isn't advisable to dig during the colder months, but we have had really mild weather here in Devon today and my plots have been covered with carpet, so I was a bit naughty.

I excavated the problem slate as deep as I dared, which was about 35cm, I then levelled the whole trench to a uniform 35cm depth which I filled with compost,grass cuttings and food waste*, I then used the slate out of the trench for my in between paths,Result.

Why pay for perfectly good slate, when I have a more than an ample supply right in my back garden!

After work I went to the local woods and grabbed a couple of bin bags worth of leaf litter, which I mixed with some compost and a little sharp sand, then I used it as a mulch for one of my plots, which I will now leave (Excuse the pun) until March.

*I'm a chef by trade so I have been using all of the nutritional food trimmings and I'm also saving seeds of Melons, Peppers and Tomatoes.

Given the gift of growing your own is a reward far greater than buying veg from a supermarket, don't you think?

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