Courses and Careers

Re: Good distance learning provider for (new) level 3, any suggestions?

spade monkey — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 14:10:39 GMT

"I understand your frustration with centres listing qualifications then pulling out because they can't afford to run them with low numbers"

I understand - bit of a catch 22 situation really - obviously at higher levels there will be a smaller pool of potential applicants. Perhaps the RHS could consider sponsoring higher level courses where providers are only one or two students short of a financially viable course?

"More than one centre (ours included) runs the practicals on Saturdays to make it easier for people who are working. There is also an option to come for blocks of training/ assessment days (rather than weekly), and this should work particularly well at level 3 where there is considerable amount of information assessed by proforma rather than by physical activity."

Now that is interesting!

Thank you for that reply, it is very helpful and I'll pass the info on.

"You might like to contact Tim Hughes via the RHS site for more information on MHort."

I wonder if they monitor this general forum?

FAO RHS admin... do you have a flow chart showing study / qualification progression and options, please?

Cheers.

Re: Good distance learning provider for (new) level 3, any suggestions?

Hortaddict — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 13:56:11 GMT

Dear Spade monkey,

lots of questions in this and I will only try to reply to bits, I'm sure the RHS admin may be able to help with more:

The 'new' level 3 'Principles of Garden Design, Construction and Planting' has rather less on hard landscaping than the 'old' level 3 did, and you are quite right, most 'plant' people aren't deeply interested in kerbs, sub bases, paving and steps; but if you (hypothetically) plan on a career in garden design, it's always a good idea to know at least a small amount about what you'll probably contract out - so you don't end up with unworkable designs, subcontractor quotes that have nasty surprises, or unhappy customers.

In the new format you get a qualification if you complete either of the level 3 Certificates, on plant growth or garden design, with a Diploma if you do all three - the choice is in how much you decide to study.You had a choice of unit in the NQF qualifications they replace, but unless you did all the available options you couldn't complete the Diploma - so you had to do a double unit on business, and unit on genetics and higher plant physiology,if you wanted to get the qualification - as well as some construction.

Progression beyond level 3 within the RHS would be towards MHort (degree equivalent) and I think you may find you have to tackle other areas that aren't immediately relevant to your business model, because while there are options, all the RHS qualifications are designed to show a breadth of knowledge/experience. You might like to contact Tim Hughes via the RHS site for more information on MHort.

I understand your frustration with centres listing qualifications then pulling out because they can't afford to run them with low numbers, and with the difficulty of trying to find practical provision - I've been on both sides in the past, looking for courses and later looking for students, because I came through the RHS qualifications route myself before I started teaching. I think you'll find the RHS do try to advise people where courses are actually running as soon as they know themselves.

More than one centre (ours included) runs the practicals on Saturdays to make it easier for people who are working. There is also an option to come for blocks of training/ assessment days (rather than weekly), and this should work particularly well at level 3 where there is considerable amount of information assessed by proforma rather than by physical activity.

We think this may be a solution to making practical courses more accessible - but you know our website if you'd like to know more. I don't want to breach site policies on advertising.

Hope this may clarify some things.

Re: Good distance learning provider for (new) level 3, any suggestions?

spade monkey — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 12:47:30 GMT

Thank you Faraway, Hortaddict and ukhostland.

I need to do some more research to get the feel for the various course offerings but will make any company specific enquiries via the websites.

Whilst there is no apparent shortage of distance learning / online presentation of learning materials with varying levels of supporting materials in the form of elearning/hybrid/VLE/tutors/forums etc, one of the biggest issues (unless one is lucky enough to be in the right area) is finding a centre that runs the practical course... particularly, if I have this correct, that the form of assessment does not depend on you being able to display knowledge before an approved independent examiner, but seems to depend on being able to attend a centre and be assessed over time:

From: RHS Level 3 Certificate in Practical Horticulture

"Assessment is by means of a range of practical activities timetabled and assessed within the approved centre."

The RHS Level 3 Certificate in Practical Horticulture Qualification - Specification

Great if you are close enough to be able to attend the centre for 30 weeks.

I might be wrong, but whilst the practical and theoretical courses are offered as independent standalone provisions, it is only when they are 'composted' together that things really start to make a difference.

Another issue is if one is already working; what about those who have to study in their spare time while working during the day as a gardener? Having to allow a day per week and maybe travel 50 or 60 miles (earch way) coud be an issue for the self-employed.

I have seen two major providers advertise advanced RHS only to pull itat the last minute because they did not have the bean-counter required number of people. Most recently trying to find local provision from two colleges on the RHS approved provider list, neither of them offered the RHS level 3 last year; one college got back and siad they are not doing it this year either (but they did kindly suggest City & Guilds), and the other hasn't responded so far.

Suggestion ffor the RHS - follow up on your list of centres and see who is not just capable of offering courses, but which centres are actively running them and create a sticky post at the top of the forum!

Approved centres list

Approved distance learning providers list

Does anyone know if there is a chart representation showing the learning paths through the RHS qualifications?

From the description of RHS Level 3 qualifications it says:

"Learners who successfully complete all the necessary units for every one of the level 3 qualifications listed above, will gain the Level 3 Diploma in the Principles and Practices of Horticulture (total 45 credits, which equates to 450 learning hours)."

That is fair enough, but what if someone wants to progress beyond level three but has no interest in garden construction? Is it possible? If it is, does anyone know the path/options?

From RHS Level 3 Certificate in the Principples of Garden Planning, Construction & Planting

It includes 4 mandatory units and, from one of these it says:

"4.2 Describe a range of appropriate surface materials for paths and driveways for parking and light use. To include: concrete, gravel, bricks, block paving, natural and artificial stone and paving."

Well that's all very well - but what if I am only interested in plants and my business model revolves around something other than hard landscaping that I will never do? Does this limit a person from higher levels of study?

Very much enjoying the research - although it is somewhat time-consuming!

Re: Good distance learning provider for (new) level 3, any suggestions?

ukhostland — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 09:45:19 GMT

Good morning spade monkey.

I gather from your post you would like to speak to us. If there is some way in which we can assist you I would be happy to do so. Please email me with any questions you might have and I will do my best to provide the information you require.

Re: Good distance learning provider for (new) level 3, any suggestions?

Hortaddict — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 08:53:38 GMT

Hi there, I am certainly still around, but after the strange turn that the thread took last summer, I generally only respond privately to forum posts where I think I can help with information.

In terms of elearning and online learning, at level 3 we don't have the online interactive quizzes we use for level 2, except for plant knowledge self-tests - I feel the types of question you can use in these are more suited to simple fact checking. At level 3 relevant sections from past exams are more helpful in getting to grips with the style of questions.

In the courses some animations and presentations need to be viewed online; most are also available in a simpler downloadable form. The bulk of the course material is presented as downloadable pdfs: outcome-by-outcome notes written specifically for the new level 2 and 3 syllabus. We also use links to useful external sites for information beyond the main scope of the syllabus. Tutors are based in the UK and we use email within a VLE ( Moodle, like the Open University and other colleges, because it's free!) for communication.

Assignments are only compulsory where you are working on the background study for the level 3 practical certificate.

I think that's answered your questions but if you'd like more information I will be happy to clarify anything outside the forum.

Good luck,

Re: Good distance learning provider for (new) level 3, any suggestions?

Faraway — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 05:19:10 GMT

I think this is Hortaddicts site - http://www.bestinhorticulture.co.uk/

Re: Good distance learning provider for (new) level 3, any suggestions?

spade monkey — Wed, 18 Apr 2012 13:06:39 GMT

Sorry to resurrect such an old thread but I'm researching this very subject and would appreciate any feedback if the original protagonists are still around.

ukhostland:
I am sure potential students are already turning off when faced with two so-called professionals engaged in such a childish spat but I cannot allow you to get away with this latest reply either.

I enjoyed it - a bit like what I've heard about 'Game of Thrones' but without all the blood, sex and betrayal (on the other hand, I guess plant propagation might cover some of that).

Still, back to the subject - I am researching options for online study of RHS level 3 and have looked at these pages so far:

I have abit of experience in course production so one of the first things that struck me is this:

Make sure you know what they mean by online learning and elearning - they are not the same. For example, on the Learning Curve page it said:

“Online Study Option Now Available - This course is also available online. Our online courses are delivered as pdfs direct to your email inbox. Our online courses are exactly the same as the postal version, but include a range of supporting study material instead of textbooks."

Which suggests an electronic form of a book plus the other unspecified 'supporting learning material' - What kind of supporting materials?

On the Garden Design Academy home page site it says:

"A proven solution: GDA is partnered with the ACS Learning Network, a world leader in online and distance learning."

...and when I looked at the course descriptions and specifications for ACS and GDA it was hard to differentiate them on first glance.

I am awaiting a reply from Warwickshire College (Pershore) because on their page it was not clear what kind of learning resources they were offering.

Also awaiting a reply from ACS re some of their elearning resources and questions like 'Are your tutors based in the UK?. Interested in where the tutors are based mainly because we're in the UK ourselves.

Have yet to email GDA but thought they might still be tracking this thread.

That leaves Hortaddict (from above) - does anyone know what happened to the project mentioned and whether it got off the ground ("I'm part of a group of ex- horticultural college tutors about to go online with our own RHS distance learning courses")?

I started putting together the course offerings in a table so I could compare them - ongoing but sometimes the marketing blurb gets in the way of the actual information.

If anyone is looking for the RHS spec:

From what I understand, here is what they should be covering:

RHS Level 3 Certificate in the Principles of Plant Growth, Health and Applied Propagation - Qualification Specification .

Re: Good distance learning provider for (new) level 3, any suggestions?

ukhostland — Thu, 22 Sep 2011 08:45:25 GMT

Good luck with your studies Antony.

We have a number of students following the ACS course with us, both the RHS Level 3 Certificate in the Principles of Plant Growth, Health and Applied Propagation and RHS Level 3 Certificate in the Principles of Garden Planning, Construction and Plantin;

They are stimulating courses: I'm enjoying it as much as they are, I think!

Colin

Re: Good distance learning provider for (new) level 3, any suggestions?

Anthony — Wed, 21 Sep 2011 22:18:27 GMT

ACS it is then. I've been struggling with deciding which provider to choose for the new RHS Level 3 courses. Having previously studied RHS level 2 with another (won't name) provider I've been digging deep to find an establishment that is serious about their students. ACS ( from my research) have great reviews all round. I have also studied a BSc with the Open University so I'm fully in tune with the dedication required to be successful at distant learning. Success begins with the right materials and support. I would urge potential students to dig a little deeper into their pockets if they can. As in many cases in life saving a few quid isn't always the best policy. I apologize if I'm gone a little off topic.

Re: Good distance learning provider for (new) level 3, any suggestions?

ACS Distance Education — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 00:17:44 GMT

Hello forum members,
We would like to comment on the above thread, since it mentions ACS Distance Education: ACS has been affiliated with Pershore / Warwickshire College for the best part of 6 years, and we have nothing but the highest regard for this establishment. Thank you Hortaddict for acknowledging the quality of ACS courses across horticulture. We also thank Colin for acknowledging the high number of students we have prepared (and are continuing to prepare) successfully for the RHS exams over the years.
From our perspective, it is great to see such passion in this exciting industry! :)

All the best from ACS Distance Education Staff.

Re: Good distance learning provider for (new) level 3, any suggestions?

ukhostland — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 08:47:44 GMT

Hi Kandeakay,

I am delighted you are enjoying your course with Pershore: I was a student there for three years in the seventies and have nothing but warm feelings for that establishment.

I picked up Hortaddict on a single point out of several he was making: that he highlighted ACS as not offering courses appropriate to serious students of RHS examinations and this is quite simply not the case. They do, and they have an examplary record in this area.

I was shocked to read the comments about this respected trainer and I dont think you would find either the RHS or Pershore misrepresenting ACS in the way that Hortaddict did. He makes it plain he is starting his own business and I can assure everyone I will not be commenting on his company in a public forum; that would be wrong, unprofessional and could risk legal action.

In many other ways his posting was helpful, I thought.

Re: Good distance learning provider for (new) level 3, any suggestions?

kandeakay — Mon, 12 Sep 2011 08:04:56 GMT

....I would have thought it quite hard to advertise an enterprise which hasn't actually started yet. I have to leap to Hortaddict's defence and feel he/she was giving a balanced view of the RHS examination learning options - anyone who has taken an RHS exam will know that their questions can be a little hard to decipher and - speaking for myself - I am more than happy to have the constant support on line from one who knows through and through the sometimes convoluted ways the RHS uses to winkle out the information it desires from the examinee....! As previously stated - I have worked my way through the Cert to Dip (1 module to go!) - and of all the study aids I have used the Pershore online system was the best by far.

Re: Good distance learning provider for (new) level 3, any suggestions?

Hortaddict — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:27:51 GMT

I had no intention of disputing with anyone, so I can only apologise as I have obviously offended you both.

Re: Good distance learning provider for (new) level 3, any suggestions?

ukhostland — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 13:37:24 GMT

I am sure potential students are already turning off when faced with two so-called professionals engaged in such a childish spat but I cannot allow you to get away with this latest reply either.

Certainly I am taking a risk by putting my head above the parapet to dispute with someone who clearly has an axe to grind, but hides his marketing under the cloak of "assisting current and prospective students". You did not highlight my company in the way you singled out ACS (the British company ACS Distance Education Limited is based in Stourbridge, by the way) but you continue to suggest that they are not focused on RHS exmination results and imply they are less serious than the company you are creating.

ACS courses for the RHS examinations are aimed at the specific requirements set out by the Royal Horticultural Society and they have been successfully assisting students from around the world to pass these examinatiuons for many, many years. The same cannot perhaps be said of every distance learning college but you made a serious error by picking on one of the better establishments working in this area. As you say, John Mason, has a formidible reputation in this field and I have alerted him to your post on this site.

We at the Garden Design Academy offer the same courses in our own particular way and consider them to be some of the best available. Other courses have a different emphasis but RHS courses concentrate on the information needed to pass the RHS exams as set out by the RHS, while at the same time being both stimulating and enjoyable. We have students from USA, South America, China and all over Europe (including the UK) studying for these exams, including some who took them at levels II and III this summer.These are serious examinations and we do not hide this fact.

There is perhaps room in this market place for yet another distance learning college, such as you are putting together, to offer RHS courses as ACS have been doing for decades. For me, the diffusion of knowledge in an industry where this is lacking, inspiring young professionals to do better and transmitting a love for the garden industry to all who would like to be involved in it, is paramount. The politics of education and scoring points over competitors interests me not at all. Let's end this conversation right here and get back to work.

Re: Good distance learning provider for (new) level 3, any suggestions?

Hortaddict — Sat, 10 Sep 2011 12:14:35 GMT

I certainly didn't mean to imply that ACS courses aren't worthwhile - John Mason has been a pioneer in online education now for many years and I'm sorry if you took my comments as a reflection on ACS affiliates. I'm sure you offer loads of tutorial support, and all the other things you've mentioned in your post.

I know ACS offer courses that lead to current QCF RHS qualifications; but they also cover the same areas looking more widely at the horticultural topics involved.

I was hoping to help current and prospective students see that in using any distance courses, they need to decide what they are aiming for - and if they want to take RHS exams, they have to apply the information they are given to the RHS's specific requirements, which are laid out most clearly in the syllabus that the RHS provides on its website.

Just at the moment, the level 3 results are coming out, and people who have succeeded at level 2 on both old and new syllabuses are thinking about whether to carry on. I think we undervalue the achievement of those people who've done well in the new exams, particularly at level 3, if we don't stress that they are difficult: some very able people who have studied hard may be shocked by not having succeeded in everything they entered. RHS qualifications have value because of their rigour, and retaking part of a certificate is going to be quite common with the new structure...

Horticulture can be fascinating, life-changing, and all the other things we realise when we begin to study it, but for many people a course covering the RHS syllabus area and giving them broad horticultural knowledge may be more enjoyable than courses like ours which are strongly focussed on the exams. It depends on what an individual student wants to achieve, and the more help we can give students in understanding realistically what's involved in studying these qualifications, the better.

I'm sorry if you got a different message from my post.