My Garden

Club root

Last post 19-01-2009 5:41 PM by bogweevil. 10 replies.

• 15/01/2009 10:26 AM

  teresatimeout Location: county durham Joined on: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 2

  Reply | Contact I think i have just discovered club root in my garden patch. As i have had planted chinese leaves, pak choi, broccoli, califlowers, cabbage etc all brought as plugs last year & planted out in in autumn last year from a reliable source. The chinese collection didnt do well, but i put it down to being a novice gardener, but now the brassicas are failing. Is it club root? What can i grow which wont be affected by this disease? I have plans and seeds for swedes, turnips, carrots, potatoes khol rabi. Whats my next step as i am totally feed up. Help please

• 15/01/2009 02:31 PM	In reply to
  bogweevil Location: Joined on: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 2,043	Reply | Contact Unless you actually see clubroot swellings on the roots (you seem unclear on this), I suspect the reason for disappointment is that autumn planting is way too late for good results with these crops. Better luck this year.   Boggy Beware the bat-eared bogweevil

• 15/01/2009 04:45 PM

  In reply to

  Tee Gee Location: Huddersfield Joined on: 12 Jan 2009 Posts: 14

  Reply | Contact  As has been said elsewhere you seem unclear if you have club root or not. Have you dug up any plants up to confirm your thoughts?     Whats my next step as i am totally feed up. Help please   I suggest you check the root system of your plants to establish if you have or not.  All brassicas are susceptable to club root the following picture of a radish (which is a brassica)should give you an idea as to what you are looking for. If your soil does suffer from clubroot then the following items taken from your list are suscepable; swedes, turnips, & khol rabi. The following slide show will show you one way of reducing the problem but not eradicating it. http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Data/Brassica%20planting/brassica%20planting.html

• 16/01/2009 12:39 AM

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  decide on one Location: northwest Joined on: 10 Jan 2009 Posts: 14

  Reply | Contact Are those nodules surrounding a grub or a reaction to being chewed?  If its the grub, I think its because as I pull the affected plants up the nodules get left behind - all I ever see are the brownish bits as illustrated just below the radish, so the grubs are not destroyed.   I watched the video - How did they get the straight lines of lime and are they like that because the lime reacts with the a--?--ox or because it was done for the camera?

• 16/01/2009 08:46 AM

  In reply to

  bogweevil Location: Joined on: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 2,043

  Reply | Contact Clubroot is a fungus disease: http://www.sac.ac.uk/consultancy/services/c-e/cropclinic/clinic/diseases/clubroot  Try not to leave any swollen root in soil - a trowel or spade helps. Grubs of cabbage root fly and turnip fly can leave brown marks, but no swellings. You get straight lines by stretching a piece of string between the sticks as a guide or using the edge of the planks. The plants no doubt guided the lime spreading. Adding lime as shown won't have much effect on clubroot - the lime has to be around the roots so it should be mixed into the soil before planting and/or added to the planting hole.   Boggy Beware the bat-eared bogweevil

• 16/01/2009 10:40 AM

  In reply to

  Tee Gee Location: Huddersfield Joined on: 12 Jan 2009 Posts: 14

  Reply | Contact Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} Are those nodules surrounding a grub or a reaction to being chewed? Club root is a soil borne disease, and as bogweevil says try not to leave any in the soil. I ever see are the brownish bits This could be the results of insect infestation again as bogweevil says; . slugs, snails and root fly to name a few. How did they get the straight lines of lime  As bogweevil says again; the plant position is the key are they like that because the lime reacts with the a--?—ox No both products serve a different purpose i.e. a********x for club root and root fly prevention and lime to adjust pH. or because it was done for the camera? Certainly not ;) its done to keep the lime off the plants Adding lime as shown won't have much effect on clubroot - the lime has to be around the roots so it should be mixed into the soil before planting and/or added to the planting hole. Sorry but I have to disagree with you this time bogweevil. Ok gardening is not an exact science and we are all entitled to our opinions and beliefs my belief is; No way do I want lime touching my seedlings particularly the young roots as I think this has the potential to burn them. My theory is; to let the rainwater dissolve the lime and this (effectively lime water) percolates down trough the soil to coating the ever expanding root system meaning most of the roots are treated. By putting the lime in the hole it is (in my opinion) too concentrated, it only treats the existing root ball as opposed to all the new roots that will subsequently form. Plus in the case of brassicas the root system tends to grow horizontally so this percolating affect covers a greater root area. But as I said; this is only an opinion, but as I am happy with it and. it works for me I will carry on with this method.

• 16/01/2009 11:45 AM

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  Digger Location: Northern UK Joined on: 18 Jul 2005 Posts: 4,743

  Reply | Contact Hmmmn, I've seen seedling cabbages being planted and the chap doing the planting chucked a handfull of lime right into the planting hole and then put the cabbage in and backfilled, There are different sorts of lime though, slaked lime was used I think. That said I think horticulture is an exact science, which is why we have scientists who specialise in horticulture. I've recently sent a soil sample to the RHS for analysis and I will be surprised if it isn't a scientist who gathers the information about my soil and gives me a report on the findings. digger

• 16/01/2009 12:21 PM

  In reply to

  bogweevil Location: Joined on: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 2,043

  Reply | Contact I am afraid the science does not support you - it is no big deal people get good results whatever showing just how resillient vegetable plants are, but for the best results you might like to consider: No way do I want lime touching my seedlings particularly the young roots as I think this has the potential to burn them.  Not, so calcium carbonate  (chalk, ground limestone is inert - quicklime or slaked lime maybe, but Australian researchers reckon these materials are OK.. My theory is; to let the rainwater dissolve the lime and this (effectively lime water) percolates down trough the soil to coating the ever expanding root system meaning most of the roots are treated. Well rainwater will dissolve the lime, but it travels slowly through the soil and takes awhile to do its good work, so although it is fine to alter the pH in a general way, to actively control clubroot in the year of application spreading lime on the surface after planting is less than optimal. By putting the lime in the hole it is (in my opinion) too concentrated, it only treats the existing root ball as opposed to all the new roots that will subsequently form.  There is something in this but firstly research suggests a very high local pH is especially effective and secondly when puddling the plant in and refilling the hole the lime gets well mixed into the soil in the root zone providing an area of intense high pH which provides very good protection. Plus in the case of brassicas the root system tends to grow horizontally so this percolating affect covers a greater root area.  Depends on your definition of horizontal - mine form a wide spreading root zone that does extend into untreated soil, but serious galling (on unprotected plants) normally occurs only on areas close to the base of the stem.  It is likely that the wider ranging roots are infected but the summer ends before these roots can express galls. But as I said; this is only an opinion, but as I am happy with it and. it works for me I will carry on with this method.  I am sure a keen gardner like yourself is sufficiently curious to experiment on one plant. By the way, other things that work like a charm for me are Perlka pre-planting, top-dressing with Calcium nitrate and adding boron before planting.  I am told that detergents are being used commercially - the motile, free-swimming fungal agent apparently cannot get a grip on roots in the presence of a suitable detergent, but I have yet to find out how much or what detergent to use. Boggy Beware the bat-eared bogweevil

• 16/01/2009 01:07 PM

  In reply to

  Tee Gee Location: Huddersfield Joined on: 12 Jan 2009 Posts: 14

  Reply | Contact  Ah!!  Some good points there Boggy!! When I write to forums such as these I write purely as an amateur gardener, probably using the term  'exact science' was wrong of me, but I was thinking more in terms of what the 'amateur' comes across in his/her day to day gardening tasks, and that in my opinion is not always resolved by 'exact science'. I agree with your comment on 'experimentation' I often do this, but I call this  'gaining knowledge & experience' rather than something scientific.   Back to the point; I think in this instance we are at cross purpose i.e. I do not add lime as an aid against club root, I use it as a pH adjustor although I am aware that in some circles they will say lime can aid in club root prevention, and as we all know the correct pH can lead to the overall well being of the soil, so why not in the fight against club root? Personally I prefer to use ar******ox as an aid against club root, hence my procedure/s when planting brassicas. Plus I also find it is a good preventative measure against root fly and caterpillars, I put this down to its smell. The reason I say this is; from sitting back and watching the 'cabbage white butterfly' I have noticed they do not alight on my brassicas for some reason, hence my theory about the smell, and I think this is the case with the root fly as well. An other + is; I am never troubled with slugs & snails nibbling at my newly planted seedlings again could that be the smell as well? I don't know!! I'm only an amateur ;o)) It was interesting to read you last paragraph about using 'detergents' as an aid. Particularly now that it has been re-classified from a fungicide to a detergent(cleanser) have I hit on something by chance?

• 16/01/2009 09:44 PM	In reply to
  teresatimeout Location: county durham Joined on: 15 Jan 2009 Posts: 2	Reply | Contact I would like to thank you all for the infomation you have given me. I have been in the garden today and decied to "wing it" as my kids would say. I moved the stronger plants inspected their roots..... no nodules only small root balls, given them an organic feed and to monitor their progess. Thanks again

• 19/01/2009 05:41 PM

  In reply to

  bogweevil Location: Joined on: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 2,043

  Reply | Contact It is no surprise that you found no galls - it is far too cold for clubroot after late summer.  Similarly plants set out in autumn will have done very little growing and will therefore have very small root balls. However, as long as the roots were pale and healthy, plants might recover in spring and give a usable crop. Organic feed is pretty thin stuff so repeated applications might be needed.  If roots were dark and rotted you will need to buy new plants in April.  Chinese veg, if any survive, will probably go to seed in spring, but you might get some tasty greens before then.  Good luck. Boggy   Beware the bat-eared bogweevil