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killer seeds?

Last post 06-07-2008 12:25 PM by Claire. 6 replies.

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  • 05/07/2008 12:48 PM
    • Claire
    • Devon
    • 05 Jul 2008
    • 3
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    I usually buy organic seeds but recently I bought non-organic seeds (veg and flowers) from Unwins and Fothergills. The problem is, I recently heard that the German office for consumer protection and food safety (BVL) has ordered the immediate suspension of approval for eight seed treatment products due to the mass death of bees in Germany. The suspended products are the following nicotinoid pesticides: Antarc, Chinook, Elado, Mesuro, Poncho, and Faibel, all made by Bayer; and Cruiser, made by Syngenta. According to the German Research Centre for Cultivated Plants, 29 out of 30 dead bees it had examined had been killed by contact with clothianidin, a nicotinoid pesticide. Also wild bees and other insects are suffering from a significant loss of population. I would not want to be responsible for killing bees in my garden so I asked both companies if they used these seed coating treatments. Unwins were good--they got back to me pretty soon and confirmed that the seeds I asked about (foxgloves) had NOT been treated with the stuff--though they didn't say that none of their seeds had been treated with it. So I planted the foxgloves. But Fothergills, despite my repeating my request for an answer about five times, never replied apart from a form email after the first request, informing me that they'd got my email. I cannot help concluding that their silence may speak volumes. But I know of no way of getting more info about this. I have visions of thousands of gardeners trying to create biodiversity in their gardens and in fact killing bees with this toxic stuff. Not to mention the recent scandal with Dow's herbicide that has got into horse manure and thence into organic allotments and gardens, where it is killing people's veg. I think I shall write to DEFRA and ask them what they are doing to investigate the toxic seed coatings and to ban Dow's wretched herbicide (let's not hold our breath for them to take useful action...) Any other ideas, anyone?

  • 05/07/2008 02:09 PM
    • Phot's-Moll
    • The sunny South coast.
    • 06 Jan 2007
    • 1,810
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     It's bad they haven't replied. If a company won't reply to your concerns then I don't think you should use them again.

    I don't understand how planting the treated seeds harms bees. I can see the chemical used could be harmful, but wouldn't the damage be done when it's applied (and made, moved, stored etc) rather than be caused by the growing plant?

    Whether you think you can do a thing, or think you cannot, you are right.
  • 05/07/2008 02:18 PM
    • digger
    • North East Lancashire
    • 18 Jul 2005
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    I too think it would be difficult for the chemical used in some seed treatments having a detrimental effect on bees un;less the plant itself was coated with chemical, most seeds that are coated are usually coated with fungicide to prevent rotting in the soil/compost. The seed company should respond to you but it may take a few days because they would need to get your questions analysed by a qualified scientist, and that could be into next week sometime.

    digger Devil
  • 05/07/2008 03:49 PM
    • Claire
    • Devon
    • 05 Jul 2008
    • 3
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    Amazingly, it is considered possible that the seed coatings are (because they are systemic) affecting the seeds and pollen of the plants--this is currently being investigated by scientists. http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_13362.cfm And again amazingly, the seed company has taken over a month to reply even though they say they aim to respond to inquiries within 24 hours. I can only conclude that they are unwilling to answer the question.

  • 05/07/2008 05:05 PM
    • digger
    • North East Lancashire
    • 18 Jul 2005
    • 3,301
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    Go onto the RHS main website and e mail them your enquiry or if you are a member you can ring them up at Wisley and someone qualified will be able to shed light onto the subject

    digger Devil
  • 06/07/2008 09:34 AM
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    Remember that seed companies are, usually, only retaillers who buy their seed from wholesalers and breeders and often know less than you might think about their products.  Unwins are owned by a leading international seed breeder so it is not surprising that they replied quickly as they will have technical experts on call. 

    Seeds for garden use are hardly ever offered with seed treatments - more is the pity as the fungicide treatments are highly effective at boosting germination.  But of course you have to handle the seed correctly and any garden pesticide product such  as seed treatment has to be idiot-proof and proven to be so by a long and expensive process.

    Organic seeds are just that - grown without any synthetic chemical and therefore will be free of any pesticide whatsoever. As it is expensive to grow organic seed, low yields, higher losses to pests and diseases, quality issues leading to more rejected batches, it is no surprise that it costs more.

    It seems that in France and Germany treated maize seed was prepared without the glue that sticks the pesticide to the seed and so the insecticide ended up where bees could get at it.  The seed drills used often use a blast of air to sort and separate the seeds so the insecticide could be blown out of the machine. The pest target, western corn rootworm, is so far confined to a limited area in Britain centreing on Heathrow and is being mainly controlled by long rotations between maize crops.  As maize is a marginal crop in Britian and there are plenty of altenatives this is much more practical than in places where summers are hotter.

    Another instance is where sunflower seeds (only for oil production in France) were treated and the hypothesis is that the insecticide spread through the plant and was still present at flowering where sublethal doses harmed bees.  This use too has been withdrawn. There is apparently no scientific evidence to support this, but on the principle of better safe than sorry the treatment is supended.

    Beekeepers are naturally very concerned.  Since gardeners depend on bees too one would assume that they would exercise sense and not spray anything in flower, spray at dusk when bees are not so mobile and remember that bees may lick up honeydew on plants that are suffering from aphids and scale insects, and use the lowest toxicity stuff they can find such as soap and oil, only progressing to more powerful insecticides if these fail to do the trick. The bogweevil, being a veg grower, and therefore largely unable to use synthetic pesticides, always has a sprayer of oil-based insecticide ready to go and knocks back any infestations as soon as they are seen.

     

    Boggy

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Beware the bat-eared bogweevil
  • 06/07/2008 12:25 PM
    • Claire
    • Devon
    • 05 Jul 2008
    • 3
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    thank you for this, which is a bit reassuring! I've decided however not to use the non-organic seeds, even though it seems (from what you say) that they are unlikely to be affected. I don't use any insecticides apart from a home-made garlic spray and soapy water and I'm just about to go out and net my brassicas to stop the cabbage whites doing their thing.